Thursday, July 13, 2006

"To a new Low"...

The Democrats have taken the road to a new "Low" in their tactics to get back in power...

Commonwealth Conservative has a great post on the subject and additional links...

http://vaconservative.com/archives/2006/07/13/absolutely-disgusting/

31 comments:

Bubba said...

This is pretty bad. Not only the edit on the booking numbers but the whole thing is just sick. I wonder if those wind towers are in Teddy's back yard?

Makes me sick....I need to go shoot something....LOL

zen said...

Just curious...what is it that you specifically find so "low" and "disgusting" about this video?

RightsideVA said...

What is the message being sent here and how will the Democrats be tougher or even tough on the war on terrorism? Heard a person on the radio this week who claims there is no war on terrorism just people responding to President Bush who is invading countries and troops who are raping their wommen. No war on terrorism? Tell India that after last week...

"But, instead of using those images to show Democrats would be tougher on terrorists and make America more secure, it uses pictures of dead soldiers in their flag draped coffins and the subtle threat of harm from September 11th to make a threat to the GOP."

Anybody remember the uproar when there was the video clip of the twin towers wreckage back during the 2004 election and the Democrats cried foul that the GOP was using the attacks to help get elected? Is using the photos of flag draped coffins the same effect as displaying photos of dead soldiers at the anti-war demonstrations? I still recall the look on the face of the anti-war person who was making the most noise when she was asked how this supports the troops as she claimed. She stuttered, said she supported the troops but did not "Support that damn President and his lies". As a good blogger I had a follow-up question of "Just how do you support the troops by showing photos of their dead comrades and waht other way in a material way do you support the troops?" (Insert sound of chirping Cricket here) was the reply we got...

"Likewise, the DCCC shows a doctored image of Tom DeLay’s mug shot from Texas. The image now has a number at the bottom: 091108GOP. Is September 11, 2008, to be the day the GOP gets wiped out by Democrats?"

zen said...

So I take it that parroting the other articles you either don't have your own opinion, or it's identical to the theirs.

First, lets stay on topic here and stick to the facts. This is ad did not shown 'bodies of dead soldiers'. And so bringing up what others have done in protests is irrelevent in this discussion.
You do point to the 'uproar' when Bush used a body covered with the flag from the WTC in his ad. I ask you what's the difference?
I'd venture that one difference is that soldiers were sent by the presidnt to be in harms way, the others were innocents. Seems more offensive to me to use the deaths of innocents in a campaign ad.

Next, you repeat the very same error that the original article you point to does. Have you watched the ad yourself? The numbers used are not "091108GOP" they are "91108GOP" it's small, but I think there is a case for an important difference here. This is why facts matter.

091108 is the common way of writing a date correct? 911 08 GOP is not. Tell me can you think of any other meaning behind the numbers "911" other than September 11? An emergency. So, perhaps what's intended is that the GOP has an emergency in '08, an election year. Or rather the country has an urgent need to vote out the GOP.

Again, facts matter. This isn't the first time you have echoed intentional distortions here. One might think that you're deliberately trying to deceive your readers.

SWAC Girl said...

Ah, Zen - up to the same "fact attack" line, putting down Rightside as if you are the only one who knows the actual details in any given story.

You said, I'd venture that one difference is that soldiers were sent by the presidnt to be in harms way, the others were innocents. Seems more offensive to me to use the deaths of innocents in a campaign ad.

Those "soldiers sent by the president to be in harm's way" are volunteers, Zen. They have proudly and consciously chosen that profession and are under the direction of their boss, the Commander-in-Chief President Bush. That is their job and they accept it as such, not considering it "being sent to be in harm's way," as you put it. See how words, phrases can make something sound different depending on how it's used? Rather than soldiers being in harm's way, how about "proud American military" (Marines are Marines, after all, and not soldiers) doing their job? They are not to be pitied for "being in harm's way." They are to be commended and thanked.

As to the rest of your argument, ho-hum....

RightsideVA said...

The uproar of using the photo of a flag drapped innocent victim is one way of looking at it. I saw it as an example of how a innocent victim WAS attack by those terrorist looking to kill us. Something that many people have forgotten or ignore. Do I want to see those images everywhere? No. But I do think that they are not shown enough for many have forgotten what happened on that day.

"The numbers used are not "091108GOP" they are "91108GOP" it's small, but I think there is a case for an important difference here. This is why facts matter."

Now is your spin considered counter-spin or actual spin? I believe we all know why this phrase
"091108GOP"or"91108GOP" was used. It makes its point no matter how you look at it....

"Again, facts matter. This isn't the first time you have echoed intentional distortions here. One might think that you're deliberately trying to deceive your readers."

Facts do matter and "facts" are not viewed the same by all people.
Depends alot on whet the meaning of "Is" is... "deliberately trying to deceive your readers."?
No. my readers, like you are welcome to come and go. I present stories and my viewpoints on a blog where people can come, believe or not believe, agree or not agree with, contribute or ignore, laugh or punch the computer screen, or just not log back on. That is the interesting thing about blogs. Do you visit only those that you agree with? Obviously ZEN visits blogs he does not agree with like I visit many that I do not agree with. Where do you think I get the stuff to laugh about!!! (Besides the NewsLeader)..

zen said...

OK let's back up and go slow...

The article you point to claims the ad says "091108GOP"
Fact or False?

Tha actual ad has "91108GOP"
Fact or False?

RightsideVA said...

Zen,
Get over it...
We all know what the intent was...

zen said...

Rightside>> Perhaps that was the intent. As I don't have any inside knowledge, I cannot say for sure. But when people have to make up falsehoods to attack the other side it discredits their arguement.
I take it from your lack of answering these questions you agree that the orignial article was misleading.
You say: Facts do matter and "facts" are not viewed the same by all people. Then tese are called opinions of the facts. Facts cannot be changed.
The fact is that the ad did not say "091108GOP" anything else, from me or you on this subject is conjecture....not fact.

ahh swac...up to the same distract from the fact attack line again, unwilling to stay on point and rather focus on a strawman.

Of course the military is a volunteer force. Of course they were performing their jobs. This is not in dispute. The point—which so often eludes you—is that there seems to be a double-standard of when, and who, using images of the dead is appropriate and when it is "disgusting."
My thought being that the contrast stands between military has been misused by Bush, as illustrated by the flag draped coffins, and Bush using the imagery of dead innocents, that did not volunteer to perform a duty that could have the potential for death.
One image highlights the results of administration policies, the other is blatant exploitation.

Bubba said...

The whole thing is just propaganda. Dems do it, Republicans do it too. My issue is that it does use the bodies (contained in coffins) of our soldiers as a political tool, which is wrong for anyone. and that on the back end of the video shows alternative power like the dems are a champion of that cause which is an out right lie.

Should Bush or anyone use bodies covered in the flag? I guess it depends in the intent. if the intent is to support nationalism or our struggle against terrorism then I think it is OK with some reservation, but to show those soldiers and paint the intent to a pure political slant is flat wrong.

Oh yeah. Straw-men make great targets. I built one at where I shoot. Much more realistic than the full form targets I have been using for target practice.

As to the 91108 thing.....with the rapid speed that that goes up and down on the screen I can only come to the conclusion that it was done to be a subliminal thing with an unknown intent. My opinion is that the mug shot should not have been doctored at all if they were going to use it.

After going back and watching the thing about 3 more times I think it will do more damage to the dems than it does to the republicans because of the blowback effect from the negativism in the ad.

SWAC Girl said...

Ah, Zen, the condescending elitism again....

You know what they say about people ... if they have to keep putting other people down they must not feel very secure about themselves. I'm sorry it appears you have to come to Rightside to feel like a bigger person.

Rightside does a great job with these posts, and we come here because we enjoy reading them. He's honest and intelligent and puts forth the facts that are avoided in the "drive-by media" and are buried on page 22 of the newspapers.

You must be one of those personalities that has to have friction in your life or it's not worth waking up every morning.

You mentioned opinions ... would that have something to do with your profession? Hmm... not news-related. Opinion related, perhaps? You are in media which explains why you're so liberal.

I don't know why you think you're always right and we're always wrong -- oh, wait! -- it must have something to do with you being a Zen-lib! But we don't buy your false facts ... which irritates you ... which makes you start snipping at people and accusing them of all kinds of falsehoods. Truth is we can all see through you.

Thanks you, and have a nice evening.

zen said...

swac, you bring a smile to my face with your repeated attempts to assult me. But you still can only distract from the topic, without facts, only rumor and conjecture.
Get a grip.

SWAC Girl said...

Zen, you were too kind when you said I brought a "smile" to your face. It was probably more like a grimace.

Keep hanging out here on the RIGHTside ... we will continue to do our best to win you over from the dark side!

Bubba said...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/ap_on_el_ho/democratic_ad_1

Looks like they did the RIGHT thing.

RightsideVA said...

Bubba,
Thanks for the link and below is a bit of it:

"The ad by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee called for a "new direction" and displayed a staccato of images, including war scenes, pollution and breached levees as well as a photograph of former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay doctored to look like a police mug shot."

Nancy Pelosi is taking the new tack also and came out saying she (They) would raise taxes on the rich and cut spending. She still does not understand simple economics and taxcuts. Cutting taxes increases investment resulting in jobs and the economy grows. Revenue to the treasury increased after the taxcuts of: Coolidge, KENNEDY, Reagan, and Bush 43... Now how is Pelosi going to cut spending? Will she admit it will be like Clinton and it will be military cuts? No. She will not go into detail for she knows it would not fly with her people...
The Democrats need a kmarketing person. This is evident on the national front as well as the local front... Many more examples to follow in the next few months...

zen said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
RightsideVA said...

Zen,

Yup.
Deleted...
Threw it away for it served no purpose but for you to cry foul and take shots at those who you do not agree with. Debate is permitted but not Cheap shots. No place for them here. If you want to be able to steer people only the way you want to go there are many blogs like that. If you are looking for a format that agrees with your point of view go to "Fractured Nation" or hang out at the Newsleader blog. Stimulating conversation there.. See the evil blogmaster at NL had to post his "ground rules"?

You are welcome to comment here if you like but if not thats o.k.
We will miss you for a bit but somehow get by without you...

Later

zen said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
zen said...

Censorship...that's the way to keep the bubble safe!

RightsideVA said...

Zen,

You guys in the media world hate that censorship word when it comes your way. Think of it as business instead.

I learned it from the local paper that only prints what they want you to know or fits into their agenda.

Claiming media bias when we do not agree with that paper (we all know which paper)is B.S. for if you have ever dealt with that paper, and I am sure you have, you will see the slant...

It is admitting to it might be the problem....

zen said...

But you see, it is not an unbiased position you advocate, it is one that leans to the right. So until is agrees with you, you will continue to feel like a "victim".

Man you cannot even present facts here. I point out where your highlighted stories have flaws, and you (and others) whine about me being a condescending elitist. Unless we define some sort of level playing field (ie. factal evidence) then you'll continue to promote only narrow spin here.

Bubba said...

I wonder if they pulled the video because they realized like I said....the backlash will help the republican party.....Sounds good to me. I might start my own PR firm. Wonder if they would hire me?.....
....
Bubba'a on target public relations- "when ya gotta get it in the 10 ring no matter what the distance."


LOL........

Bubba said...

That beacon of political insite and forseer of the future, Dean, is at it again.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20060716-9999-1m16dean.html

Looks to me that by his remarks he thinks we should be bombing Korea and Iran. Way to go Dean! Telling the world about the high moral character of Bill Clinton helps too. Gave me a good deep down belly laugh.

RightsideVA said...

Bubba,

Seems to me that he is just looking for some traction against the President in anyway "They" can. He has been very quiet lately and maybe somebody is trying to save his job? Monday morning quarterback is always easy and can only imagine what it is like with all of the information that the administration has to deal with that we do not know about. There are always deals on the backside that we never know about and that might explain the tact Russia is taking...

I found the statements by Dean interesting until it came to the part where he says that they should tell the VOTERS that the President is not tough enough in the conflict in Israel... It's all about the votes.+

zen said...

Rightside says, "It's all about the votes."

You mean the head of the DNC—an elected position charged with campagining and pushing the party platform—would actually speak to a group of the party, about voting?!

Shocking!

"Dean was the keynote speaker on the second day of a three-day conference called DemocracyFest, billed as part conference, part festival for progressive activists."

zen said...

Hard to defend a double-standard:

Questioned by reporters on what the difference was, Boehner seemed tongue-tied. "These were American citizens killed by terrorists. That is a very different policy issue than American soldiers dying on the battlefield protecting the rights and freedoms of American people."

"How so?" a reporter asked.

"How so? You want me to describe the difference between men and women of the military out there defending the American people, and victims - victims - of terrorist activities?" Boehner asked.

"They were both killed by opponents, right? Terrorists or Islamic insurgents?" a reporter pressed.

An exasperated Boehner said: "The World Trade Center victims were victims of a terrorist act here on our shore and I think all Americans were appalled that this did in fact happen. But I think the differences, in terms of the images, are as clear as night and day."

zen said...

Oh the hypocrisy.

So the ad is to remind people that OBL is still free?

Bubba said...

Zen,

Please, please, please tell me that you are not trying to start the civilian vs. soldier debate again. There is a difference. You know it. I know it. The media knows it. The terrorists know it.

And if the ad does remind people UBL is alive that is a good thing. Right now he is staying too far off the radar. Letting the people know he is still out there would be a good thing. Highlights the issues. Repubilcans show that a nasty terrorist is still out there and we cannot loose focus and Democrats try to get another dollar an hour for the fry guy at McGreaseSpot. Who would you vote for?

RightsideVA said...

The talk about UBL still being out there and "Civilian vs. soldier" comparrison brings something to mind that was mentioned the other day. The U.S. and it's allies in this fight on terrorism has gone a bit out of their way to prevent civilian casulties. Remember WWII and other conflicts with carpet bombing? Remember when we had UBL in the mountains in Afghanistan before he hightailed it over to Pakistan? Get all of our people out of there and perfect place to use a tactical nuke to see how well those things really work.

The issue of images of dead soldiers and WTC\Pentagon images will be one around for a longtime and will be focused on during the 2006 election also. I believe we need to see these images more to keep an eye on the ball and the war on terrorism. I believe the DNC used the images of the soldiers lost only to benefit their campaign aspirations and did not care one bit about the soldiers or the families. I also believe we do not show the images of the flag drapped coffins out of respect to the families. Imagine the traction the President could get with a well formatted photo of him alone with the coffins showing his respect? Powerful but how would the media view that?

Look at how the media viewed and reported, lack of, this last example...

http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2006/cyb20060714.asp#2

Bubba said...

Looks like the NY Times is feeling some heat.......

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=businessNews&storyid=2006-07-18T113614Z_01_N17180350_RTRUKOC_0_US-MEDIA-NEWYORKTIMES.xml&src=rss&rpc=23

Man that was a long link.........

RightsideVA said...

"All the news thats fit to print" must be getting smaller and smaller. Need to make some more stories up?